Tight wires frighten me. I heard a speaker tell about a daredevil who stretched one across Niagara Falls. Before walking across, he asked the audience, “Do you think I can do this?” Yes!, came the unanimous reply. After his return, he put a wheelbarrow on the wire. “Who thinks I can push this across and back?” Everyone did, and they applauded when he returned. “Now, who thinks I can push a man across in this wheelbarrow?” With one voice, the crowd said they knew he could do it. “Good,” he said, “who will be my first volunteer?” Had I been there, I would have skulked to the rear of the crowd.
The speaker I heard used this illustration to teach a lesson about faith—If we believe our Lord Jesus Christ can get us to the other side, we will get in his wheelbarrow without hesitation.
I want to use this imagery for a different purpose because I am trying to negotiate another tight wire—a prophetic one. On one side, futurists and their prophetic models pull at me. On the other side, I feel a relentless tugging from full preterists who say no biblical prophecies remain unfulfilled.
I have pushed back against the futurists in recent posts regarding Paul’s “rapture passage” (1 Thess 4:13–5:11). They say Paul spoke of events in his distant future, at the end of the present messianic age. I disagree; he wrote about events that some of the Thessalonians would live to see (1 Thess 4:15, 17). He believed this because “the word of the Lord” (1 Thess 4:15) had taught him so. We now know this “word of the Lord” as the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24–25; Mark 13; Luke 21:5–38). There, the Lord said the parousia, the “great tribulation,” the abomination of desolation, the trumpet’s sounding, the gathering of the elect, his coming in the clouds, etc., would occur in his generation (Matt 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32). The futurists are wrong when they say otherwise.
In this post, I want to confront the forces coming from the opposite direction. The full (or hyper) preterists huff and puff, saying the temple’s fall in AD 70 fulfilled all prophecies.
This assertion contradicts Paul’s conclusion to First Thessalonians. He said,
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming (Gk., en tē parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it. (1 Thess 5:23–24)
The full preterists want to push me off the inmillennial1 high wire by forcing me to deny the future (to us) bodily resurrection. Ed Stevens provides one example of this denial:
What we mean here is that the prophesied end-time events did occur.… We must also consider the possibility that the reason why the Parousia and Resurrection events were not recorded by the folks who experienced them is because they were no longer living on earth afterwards. The majority of true Christians were killed in the Neronic persecution, and the rest were changed into their new immortal bodies and taken to heaven to be with Christ in the unseen spiritual realm forever afterwards.… The resurrection and judgment at AD 70 were once-for-all events just like the Cross and Christ’s resurrection. They are never to be repeated.2
I am resisting this false “wind of doctrine” (Eph 4:4) with all my might. Paul’s prayer for the Thessalonians included their bodies; it “included man’s material part.”3 And he strengthened his affirmation by adding, “He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.” The bodily resurrection of the saints is a necessary part of Christ’s parousia; it is the glorious climax of the kingdom God established in the “last days” of the Mosaic age. To deny it is to deny the gospel of the kingdom; it is to be outside the Christian faith.
The errors of the full preterists and the futurists spring from the same source—their belief that the parousia of Christ is a point-in-time event. The futurists place their punctiliar parousia in our future, so they must deny that the temple’s fall was part of it despite the Lord’s clear teaching to the contrary.
With the same point-in-time idea in mind, the full preterists say the parousia happened during Jerusalem’s destruction (AD 66–70). Since the Scriptures link the resurrection to the parousia (e.g., 1 Cor 15:23), they must say the resurrection occurred in that period, too.
The full preterists offer various explanations for how this could be so. Some, like Stevens above, say the resurrection was physical, but that no written record of it exists. God gave glorified bodies to the saints at that time. He now gives glorified bodies to the saints at their death. Other full preterists, like Don K. Preston, believe the resurrection was a corporate event. In it, God raised the body of Christ (i.e., the church) from the “graves” of the Mosaic age to the glory of the messianic age. However, no physical bodies left graves in the dirt. He dates this corporate “resurrection”:
If Daniel 12:2 is predictive of the “final resurrection” … there can be no doubt about when the resurrection was to occur. It was, “when the power of the holy people” was completely shattered. And that was at the end of the Old Covenant world of Israel in AD 70.4
Both these full preterists deny Paul’s plain meaning in our passage. He prayed God would preserve the bodies of the Thessalonians in his parousia. He said the faithfulness of God guaranteed it would be so.
The promise of bodily resurrection permeates the Bible. The Old Testament saints confessed this truth. Hannah, for example, while giving thanks to God for Samuel, her newborn son, said, “The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up” (1 Sam 2:6). And, David believed he would one day bear the image of his Redeemer: “As for me,” he said, “I will see Your face in righteousness; I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness” (Ps 17:15). Job said,
I know that my Redeemer lives, and He shall stand at last on the earth; and after my skin is destroyed, this I know, that in my flesh I shall see God, Whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! (Job 19:25–27)
Daniel said that, in the messianic age, “many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt” (Dan 12:2. See my post on this passage here.)
The New Testament abounds with references to the future (to us) bodily resurrection. Jesus said, “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:28–29). Paul said, “If the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you” (Rom 8:11). He argues at length that the resurrection of our bodies is a central part of the gospel (1 Cor 15). If he were living today, he might say, “How say [the hyper-preterists] among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?” (1 Cor 15:12).
The messianic age began with Jesus’ bodily resurrection. It will end with the bodily resurrection of his people. John saw what will happen: “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works” (Rev 20:13).
Conclusion
Inmillennialism says Paul’s Greek words en tē parousia tou kuriou hēmōn Iēsou Christou mean “in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thess 5:23 YLT). This presence is the Lord dwelling with his churches during the messianic age. This understanding allows us to see the temple’s destruction in AD 70 as part of the Lord’s parousia (cp. Matt 24:1–3). It also allows us to see the resurrection as being “in his presence” (1 Cor 15:23 YLT).
Proponents of the modern prophetic systems—whether futurists or full preterists—deny this truth. They limit the parousia to a point-in-time event in either AD 70 or at the end of the present messianic age. These errors threaten to disturb our balance on the inmillennial tight rope.
The threat of losing my prophetic balance frightens me. But I believe that the God of peace Himself will sanctify us completely; and that our whole spirit, soul, and body will be preserved blameless in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls us is faithful, who also will do it (1 Thess 5:23–24).
Amen.
Footnotes
- I document this perspective in Michael A. Rogers, Inmillennialism: Redefining the Last Days (Tullahoma, TN: McGahan Publishing House, 2020). This book is available here in hardcopy and here as a PDF. A free summary PDF document of inmillennialism is here.
- Edward E. Stevens, What Happened in A.D. 70? (Bradford, PA: Kingdom Publications, 1997), 16, 47.
- Robert L. Thomas, “1 Thessalonians,” in The Expositor’s Bible Commentary: Ephesians through Philemon, ed. Frank E. Gaebelein, vol. 11 (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1981), 294.
- Don K. Preston, Seventy Weeks Are Determined for … the Resurrection (Ardmore, OK: Jadon Productions, 2007), 116 (emphasis added).
4 comments
Brother Mike,
It’s amazing how people can read the same passages and come to completely different interpretations. As I shared before, I am mostly a full preterist with the exception of Rev 20:7-10. That said, I don’t see that it matters if any of the molecules of our current earth bodies are somehow preserved then converted and used in our ultimate spiritual bodies. In the end, we become perfect spiritual beings with our spirits and souls intact. We end up with Jesus in Heaven. That’s really all that matters at the end of the day, wouldn’t you agree?
The notion that our current earth bodies inherit their spiritual body would seem to contradict Paul’s clear teaching in 1 Cor 15, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.” In Acts 2, Peter strongly alludes to the fact that only Christ’s body would not see corruption. As I suggested before, being “resurrected” has more to do with being set free from Hades than it does having one’s earth body raised again. To be “raised from the dead” is to be raised out of Hades, the dwelling place of the spiritually dead.” They are “raised from the Dead.” Whichever view is correct, I could care less as I’m not too fond of my current frail, cancerous body, with 58-year old joints that hurt, LOL. As long as I get to heaven when my life ends, I’ll be thrilled.
As for timing, I agree with my full brothers that the beginning of the parousia happened in 66-70 AD (likely 66), but I agree with you that it wasn’t a point in time parousa. Christ came and stayed and is with us now as the head of His Church. I take 1 Thes 5 differently when Paul says he hopes their “whole spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless at the coming.” This is not evidence of a bodily resurrection. We see earlier in Chapter 5 that Paul sees the Thessalonians as being still alive (which he echoes in 4:17) as he is warning them about being sober and watching. When Christ’s parousia began (I want to say 66 AD), there immediately was a judgment of not only the dead but also the living. Mat 13 tells about the separation of the wheat and tares. The “tares” were gathered from all over the Roman Empire and were returned to Jerusalem to be burned in the fires of 70 AD, while the wheat were gathered into the “barn” or kingdom, the kingdom that was to come without observation. It’s amazing how literal these events were as God used the feasts and customs against the wicked Jews and used the Romans to keep them in the city once they came.
I disagree with Stevens that the living were changed into spiritual beings at this time as they were NOT whisked off to heaven. There is no passage that teaches living beings are being translated into spiritual beings and removed from the planet. The living would be changed, but nothing says how they are changed. I believe they were simply changed as they became a new creation, 2 Cor 5:17. They were coded for heaven and no longer Hades. I disagree also with Preston. The resurrection was not a corporate event in the way he sees it. It was a point in time event for all those who died prior to the parousia. There is no more resurrection for any believer since then, we die, we are immediately in heaven with Jesus as complete beings. No more Hades. Christ defeated Death (separation from God) and Hades upon His parousia. He set the captives free. Stevens was wrong, the first resurrection was witnessed and I provided the reference before where Nero saw phantoms coming out of the ground as he dug a canal at the start of the Jewish War. Josephus records the angelic army in the clouds just prior to the start of the Jewish War.
1 Thes 4:13-18 is a resurrection passage. There would be some who would read Paul’s letter who would still be alive and remaining. The text is pretty clear about this. It echoes what Jesus also said in Mat 16:28, “Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” Since Christ came in His Kingdom and first resurrected those in Hades, He also brought the living into the Kingdom then. The living believers would not prevent or precede those who had fallen asleep (died), they would be caught up (raptured) to join the others when it was their turn to die. This is the way it has been ever since. Multiple NDE reports confirm this. They see their dead bodies below them as they float upward. But, we are in the kingdom now, we just can’t see the spiritual side. The Two Witnesses, Peter and Paul, would have been ordered killed by Nero around this time and thus took part in the first resurrection.
I hope good men of faith who disagree on some of these points will still love and respect those with differing views. Your view still has the OT saints locked up in Hades or as bodiless beings in heaven waiting for thousands of years not yet able to fully enjoy the rewards Christ promised. Sorry Brother Mike, I don’t think God’s master plan would keep His faithful waiting so long. In Rev 6:11 they were told to “rest a little while longer,” not rest for 2,000 more years. Love ya brother and appreciate all your contributions, I just think you’re off a bit on this topic.
Andy
Brother Andy,
Thank you for this comment; it’s obvious you invested considerable time and effort in it. Your feedback always makes me think and re-analyze my beliefs. I will not take time to respond to every difference you mention since I have documented the reasons for my positions in the book and blog.
However, I want to respond to the following statement: “Your view still has the OT saints locked up in Hades or as bodiless beings in heaven waiting for thousands of years not yet able to fully enjoy the rewards Christ promised.” In previous posts—especially The Fathers Enter the Kingdom—I emphasized that the OT saints have entered the kingdom and now reign with Christ. They are “able to fully enjoy the rewards Christ promised” to the extent those rewards are now available. But the fulness of God’s blessings has not arrived; all his enemies are not confessing Christ as Lord of lords and King of kings. They will, however, after he defeats his last enemy, physical death, in the resurrection and executes the final judgment. The coming of the kingdom of God elevated the status of all God’s people, including the OT saints, but the fulness of that exaltation is yet to come.
I value your candid observations and join you in wondering how we can have so many different opinions about these matters. Let’s pray that God will continue illuminating his Word so we can speak the same thing.
Yours in Christ,
Mike
Brother Mike,
Thank you for replying so I can better understand how you arrived at your conclusions. Just so I am clear, are these your views?:
A couple of questions: Where are people who have died since Christ, believer and unbeliever located? If believers are in heaven, are they bodiless souls and spirits? If so, how can they experience any senses without a body since they are created in God’s image? How are they able to sing and wear robes?
I hold different views on the above 4 points.
1. There is no companion passage to Mt 27:53. Nothing says those who rose after Christ and appeared to many in Jerusalem went to heaven. There is no other resurrection passage which places the timing at Christ’s resurrection. Nothing in the passage suggests a global event, rather it appears to be localized to the area of Jerusalem. Thus, I conclude that the resurrection power of God which brought Christ back to life, did the same to those who recently died (within 4 days) and that they all later died again as did Lazarus. These people were not resurrected but were rather, resuscitated, like Lazarus.
2. Not sure which passage you get this from, Rev 1:7? I believe when Christ died that during those 3 days He went to Hades and ministered to the dead (Eph 4:9, 1 Pet 3:19). He then resurrected the saints at the start of the Jewish war at His parousia.
3. Christ’s enemies were the Jewish religious leaders of His day, who put Him to death (Lk 19:27). Christ was to sit at the right hand until God made these wicked people, Christ’s footstool (Mt 22:44 and others). These enemies lost control of the temple to the tyrants, thus were defeated, then those priests who survived the great tribulation of Jerusalem, were all killed by Titus. I believe the last enemy, DEATH, was spiritual death which is separation from God, the main curse of the original sin. The whole purpose of the Cross was to defeat spiritual death, not physical death! Christ restored our connection to God by the Cross then at His Parousia (1 Cor 15:20-26) the saints were raised from Hades. This passage makes clear that the resurrection occurs at His Coming, His parousia. “But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.” This would be the next time He came, not some future parousia. Dan 12:1-2 confirms this timing as happening during Jacob’s Trouble, AKA, “the Great Tribulation” of Jerusalem. The resurrection was a mirror opposite to the Fall.
The Bible indicates that before the resurrection, both the righteous and wicked were consigned to Sheol (Genesis 37:35) or Hades. Before Jesus died for the remission of sins; past, present and future; the Old Covenant saints had no sacrifice for sin to purge them from the curse of spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God. Thus these saints were confined to Sheol, the underworld of spiritual death, after biological death. Sheol is spiritual death because it is continued separation from God in heaven after physical death. Sheol is synonymous with death in the Bible and is often simply translated “death” in English translations of the Bible. Christ often used the term “death” to describe the spiritually dead such as in Mt 8:21. According to the Bible it is in Sheol that the departed await the resurrection. Sheol appears to be a realm of darkness that is often described as a pit (Ezekiel 32:21-23). It may also be called “outer darkness” by Jesus in the New Testament (Matthew 8:12; 22:13; 25:30). It is in this realm of spiritual death that the dead are temporarily separated from God prior to the resurrection. This was the enemy Christ defeated and it happened at His parousia (Rev 1:18).
4. I only see a future resurrection of the unjust per Rev 20:5 after the 1,000 years are concluded. The just are resurrected continuously today. Actually, resurrected is the wrong term as we don’t go to Hades anymore. We simply rise and are immediately taken to heaven. Our earth bodies serve no future purpose. Our earth bodies are called “tents” by both Peter and Paul, covering our spiritual body.
Perhaps you can understand how I came to different conclusions? Thanks. Andy
Brother Andy,
I always appreciate the spirit of your correspondence. Thank you!
I believe that God has not seen fit to reveal many details about life in the unseen realm during the messianic age, or life in the eternal state. I hesitate to speculate too much about those states of being.
Regarding your four summary statements and questions about my views:
(1) At the coming of the kingdom (e.g., Matt 16:27–28), I think God transferred the OT saints to a state of far greater glory than they enjoyed in the Mosaic age. I don’t think the passage you gave (Matt 27:53) relates to this transfer. Abraham and other OT elect persons entered the kingdom; we Gentile believers now sit with them in the kingdom-age feast of fat things (Isa 25:6). Jesus’ prophecy is now a reality: “There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God” (Luke 13:28–29). Apostate Israel stands without; we sit with Abraham.
(2) Among the passages of which I was thinking are the following:
We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: “As I live, says the LORD, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us shall give account of himself to God (Rom 14:10–12; Paul is quoting Isa 45:23).
God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2:9–11)
This universal confession has not happened, but it will in our future.
(3) God’s creation is spiritual and physical. Sin marred both. Christ redeemed both. God will honor Paul’s prayer: our “whole spirit, soul, and body (will) be preserved blameless at the coming (i.e., in the parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it” (1 Thess 5:23–24).
(4) The future resurrection and judgment comprise all persons who ever lived: “The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:28–29).
I would love to meet you someday and assure you of how highly I value your love of God’s word. May we learn to speak the same things to the glory of our risen Lord.
Yours in Christ,
Mike